PLUG-discuss digest, Vol 1 #1410 - 14 msgs
tawn berman
plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
Sat, 8 Sep 2001 01:05:09 -0700
cool,
I look forward to hearing from you.
Tawn
----- Original Message -----
From: <plug-discuss-request@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us>
To: <plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 5:22 PM
Subject: PLUG-discuss digest, Vol 1 #1410 - 14 msgs
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: a little security (Eric)
> 2. Re: Netscxape (Derek Neighbors)
> 3. Re: MS on every kids computer (Brian Cluff)
> 4. Re: Netscxape (Dan Brown)
> 5. RE: MS on every kids computer (Trent Shipley)
> 6. Re: Netscxape (Carl Parrish)
> 7. Re: MS on every kids computer (Alan Dayley)
> 8. Re: a little security (der.hans)
> 9. Re: MS on every kids computer (Brian Cluff)
> 10. Re: Netscxape (Brian Cluff)
> 11. Re: a little security (J.Francois)
> 12. Re: MS on every kids computer (Alan Dayley)
> 13. Win4Lin Experience? (Eric Richardson)
> 14. Re: Win4Lin Experience? (John (EBo) David)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 10:50:46 -0800
> From: "Eric" <yonica@qwest.net>
> To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: RE: a little security
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
>
>
> >This looks to me like a good opportunity to teach those users how to
> >use FreeSwan or vtun and set up a VPN.
>
> I concur
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:28:16 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Derek Neighbors <derek@gnue.org>
> To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Re: Netscxape
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
> Switch to mozilla or konq. If using KDE use konqueror other wise download
> mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org)
>
> Netscape is non free software and besides it is absolute crap on
> GNU/Linux. IMHO
>
> Derek
>
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Roy J.Babin wrote:
>
> > I am a Newbie with Linux. I`m having trouble with Netscape, every so
> > often when I enter an URL it will go blank, or will freeze, also will
> > knock out my modem at times. Any suggestions would be greatly
> > appreciated.
> > Thank you. Using Netscape 4.7
> >
> > ________________________________________________
> > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> >
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Brian Cluff" <brian@snaptek.com>
> To: <plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us>
> Subject: Re: MS on every kids computer
> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 12:36:14 -0700
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
> > I have a corporate affairs person at Sun who can help, but she'd like an
> > idea of what kind of help we're looking for. Suggestions?
>
> I'm really not sure myself what to do, I don't really have much experience
> in these matters. I do suspect that it might be to late to do anything
> about this problem, but its definalty not too late to do something about
the
> source of the problem, being the uneducated people that ran this though
the
> system. We can at least try and let people know about the huge amount of
> money that is being laid out that won't work very good. I would say any
> system that would possibly require an OC48 going into a school would be a
> bad system. Thats more bandwidth than ASU plus about 50+ schools they
> provide bandwidth use all together.
>
> Anyway, someone needs to look like an ass over this one...
>
> Brian Cluff
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:14:21 -0700
> From: Dan Brown <datm@qwest.net>
> To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Re: Netscxape
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
>
> --3Pql8miugIZX0722
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> I've switched to Opera (http://www.opera.com). It's fast and doesn't
> hog a bunch-o memory.
>
> Dan
>
> Roy J.Babin (babinr@earthlink.net) wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 11:13:56 -0700
> > From: "Roy J.Babin" <babinr@earthlink.net>
> > Sender: plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16-22 i686)
> > Subject: Netscxape
> > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> > Lines: 13
> >=20
> > I am a Newbie with Linux. I`m having trouble with Netscape, every so
> > often when I enter an URL it will go blank, or will freeze, also will
> > knock out my modem at times. Any suggestions would be greatly
> > appreciated.
> > Thank you. Using Netscape 4.7
> >=20
> > ________________________________________________
> > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
p=
> ost to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> >=20
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >=20
>
> --3Pql8miugIZX0722
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> Content-Disposition: inline
>
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> --3Pql8miugIZX0722--
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> From: "Trent Shipley" <tshipley@symbio-tech.com>
> To: <plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us>
> Subject: RE: MS on every kids computer
> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:12:38 -0700
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
> No matter how done the deal, we should still be able to insist on serving
> free software.
>
> We could also swing dual boot *provided* that it doesn't increase network
> admin costs, compromise security, etc.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> > [mailto:plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us]On Behalf Of Brian
> > Cluff
> > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 12:36 PM
> > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> > Subject: Re: MS on every kids computer
> >
> >
> > > I have a corporate affairs person at Sun who can help, but she'd like
an
> > > idea of what kind of help we're looking for. Suggestions?
> >
> > I'm really not sure myself what to do, I don't really have much
experience
> > in these matters. I do suspect that it might be to late to do anything
> > about this problem, but its definalty not too late to do
> > something about the
> > source of the problem, being the uneducated people that ran this
> > though the
> > system. We can at least try and let people know about the huge amount
of
> > money that is being laid out that won't work very good. I would say any
> > system that would possibly require an OC48 going into a school would be
a
> > bad system. Thats more bandwidth than ASU plus about 50+ schools they
> > provide bandwidth use all together.
> >
> > Anyway, someone needs to look like an ass over this one...
> >
> > Brian Cluff
> >
> > ________________________________________________
> > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail
> > doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> >
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 13:22:56 -0700
> From: Carl Parrish <cparrish@home.com>
> To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Re: Netscxape
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
> Netscape 6.1 is based off of the mozilla codebase and I've heard good
> things about it. Since I run mozilla I can't actually say anything about
> it myself.
>
> Carl P.
>
> Derek Neighbors wrote:
>
> >Switch to mozilla or konq. If using KDE use konqueror other wise
download
> >mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org)
> >
> >Netscape is non free software and besides it is absolute crap on
> >GNU/Linux. IMHO
> >
> >Derek
> >
> >On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Roy J.Babin wrote:
> >
> >>I am a Newbie with Linux. I`m having trouble with Netscape, every so
> >>often when I enter an URL it will go blank, or will freeze, also will
> >>knock out my modem at times. Any suggestions would be greatly
> >>appreciated.
> >>Thank you. Using Netscape 4.7
> >>
> >>________________________________________________
> >>See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> >>
> >>PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> >>http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >>
> >
> >________________________________________________
> >See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> >
> >PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> >http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 13:38:16
> To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> From: Alan Dayley <adayley@adtron.com>
> Subject: Re: MS on every kids computer
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
>
> My ideas:
>
> Pick a school (public would be good, charter or private ok). Setup
K12LTSP
> (or similar) with low cost, but appropriate, hardware for the server and
> clients. Document everything about the process to the penny and second of
> time. Get the students and teachers using it. Document what they think
of
> it. Document maintenance time and costs. In other words, create a live
> test case to compare with the ASP system and costs that our state is
> creating. I understand there are some schools or districts that have
> already pilotted the Arizona ASP program. Find out what they did and
> duplicate it in open source as close as possible.
>
> 1. Sun or IBM or Intel or Motorola or RedHat or anyone else could donate
> hardware and software for the test case system. Anything donated should
> still be given market value for cost calculations. The corparate sponsors
> (as it were) would be able to use this test case for marketing (good will,
> community help, hard numbers for cost comparisons, etc.) so they should
> want to do this.
>
> Sun could provide StarOffice distribution packages, training and
> maintainance. The have thin client workstations (the Sunray line), maybe
> some old ones even, that could be donated. I suppose these will work with
> a Linux server instead of Solaris.
>
> 2. How many of those "no-tech-crats" in the SFB have ever used StarOffice
> or KOffice or AbiWord? Or even know they exist? How about education
> seminars or workshops to educate Arizona's education industry about open
> source alternatives to M$? Corporate sponsors can provide materials,
> capital or even locations to put something like this on.
>
> 3. Press releases from recognized corporate names like Sun (co-signed by
> AZOTO, of course) can increase visibility of the problem. Something like:
> "Sun's Arizona office expressed dismay at the deal. 'We could have given
> them StarOffice for free.' said Joan Spokesperson. 'Instead they are
> spending our children's education money making Microsoft richer.'"
>
> Because the ASP contract is already a done deal, protests would be good
for
> visibility of the issue but probably not effective for changing
> implementation. What we need is real, documented and successful
> installations and demonstrations to expose the alternative in a highly
> visible way. Corporations with interest in the success of open source /
> free software can help create new, or further current, (Sequoia?)
> successful demo projects.
>
> That is how Sun (or any other corporate entity) can help.
>
> Alan
>
> At 08:37 AM 9/7/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >I have a corporate affairs person at Sun who can help, but she'd like an
> >idea of what kind of help we're looking for. Suggestions?
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:53:50 -0700 (MST)
> From: "der.hans" <PLUGd@LuftHans.com>
> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Re: a little security
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
> Am 07. Sep, 2001 schwäzte J.Francois so:
>
> > This looks to me like a good opportunity to teach those users how to
> > use FreeSwan or vtun and set up a VPN.
>
> Looks like an opportunity for you to do a talk on them ;-).
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
> --
> # der.hans@LuftHans.com home.pages.de/~lufthans/ www.DevelopOnline.com
> # When you are tired of choosing the lesser of two evils,
> # Vote Cthulhu for President!
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> From: "Brian Cluff" <brian@snaptek.com>
> To: <plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us>
> Subject: Re: MS on every kids computer
> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:55:56 -0700
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
> > Because the ASP contract is already a done deal, protests would be good
> for
> > visibility of the issue but probably not effective for changing
> > implementation. What we need is real, documented and successful
> > installations and demonstrations to expose the alternative in a highly
> > visible way. Corporations with interest in the success of open source /
> > free software can help create new, or further current, (Sequoia?)
> > successful demo projects.
>
> Sequoia has been using Staroffice, gimp, Tux Typing, Blender... etc etc
for
> 2 year. It is/has been running on windows but all of those appications
were
> chosen not only for their quality, but for the fact they are
multiplatform.
> They will all someday run under linux, but the fact of the matter is that
> other than a few govt entities that require that you submit forms in
office
> format there have been really no problems at all with running staroffice
and
> the other software on any of our campuses (Tempe, Showlow, Peoria, or any
of
> our Mesa campus').
>
> Brian Cluff
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> From: "Brian Cluff" <brian@snaptek.com>
> To: <plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us>
> Subject: Re: Netscxape
> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:01:52 -0700
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
> > Netscape 6.1 is based off of the mozilla codebase and I've heard good
> > things about it. Since I run mozilla I can't actually say anything about
> > it myself.
>
> If you use mozilla anyway, you should give Galeon a try. It has a ton of
> features the mozilla/netscape dont have and tends to be a little leaner
and
> faster as well.
>
> Brian Cluff
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:11:28 -0700
> From: "J.Francois" <frenchie@magusnet.com>
> To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Re: a little security
> Organization: MagusNet, Inc. Design * Develop * Integrate
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
>
> --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> I would love to do a presentation on VPN setup.
>
> Any complaints if I do it with FreeBSD? :)
>
> Seriously, Let me see what docs I can scrounge up on doing
> VPN setup between Linux and FreeBSD and I'll set something up.
>
> I needed a new project to work on anyway.
>
> On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 01:53:50PM -0700, der.hans wrote:
> > Am 07. Sep, 2001 schw=E4zte J.Francois so:
> >=20
> > > This looks to me like a good opportunity to teach those users how to
> > > use FreeSwan or vtun and set up a VPN.
> >=20
> > Looks like an opportunity for you to do a talk on them ;-).
> >=20
> > ciao,
> >=20
> > der.hans
> > --=20
> > # der.hans@LuftHans.com home.pages.de/~lufthans/ www.DevelopOnline.com
> > # When you are tired of choosing the lesser of two evils,
> > # Vote Cthulhu for President!
> >=20
> > ________________________________________________
> > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
p=
> ost to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> >=20
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
> --
> Jean Francois - JLF Sends...
> Once at a social gathering, Gladstone said to Disraeli,
> "I predict, Sir, that you will die either by hanging or of some
> vile disease". Disraeli replied, "That all depends, Sir, upon=20
> whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."
>
>
> --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb
> Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Comment: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished
>
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> =YufB
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb--
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 14:15:11
> To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> From: Alan Dayley <adayley@adtron.com>
> Subject: Re: MS on every kids computer
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
>
> Brian,
>
> I know you have nothing else to do... ;^)
>
> Write a white paper on Sequoia's IT stuff. Why did you choose it? Was it
> hard to implement? Infrastructure details, maintainance costs, admin
> costs, user reactions, parent's reactions, estimated savings, etc.
>
> Really, a good white paper like that is alot of work, but what a thing to
> drop in a (parent/teacher/principal/board member/administator/SFB
> member/VOTER/TAXPAYER)'s lap!
>
> I am sure you could get people to help write it.
>
> Alan
>
> At 01:55 PM 9/7/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >Sequoia has been using Staroffice, gimp, Tux Typing, Blender... etc etc
for
> >2 year. It is/has been running on windows but all of those appications
were
> >chosen not only for their quality, but for the fact they are
multiplatform.
> >They will all someday run under linux, but the fact of the matter is that
> >other than a few govt entities that require that you submit forms in
office
> >format there have been really no problems at all with running staroffice
and
> >the other software on any of our campuses (Tempe, Showlow, Peoria, or any
of
> >our Mesa campus').
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:07:41 -0700
> From: Eric Richardson <eric.richardson@milagrosoft.com>
> Organization: MilagroSoft Inc.
> To: plug <plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us>
> Subject: Win4Lin Experience?
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
> Hi,
>
> I saw a thread about Win4Lin on the Debian list and thought people might
> be interested. It seems to be a very good alternative to dual boot and
> reasonable in price. Buying a piece of proprietary software to run M$
> doesn't seem like a contradiction so perhaps more people could get to
> use Linux.
>
> If anybody has any experience with this here are a couple of questions.
>
> 1. It seems that it may want to replace the kernel, do they add their
> own kernel module compiled in or change the Linux kernel or provide a
> kernel module?
>
> 2. Do they have a Debian installer so the standard package management
> tools can be used.
>
> In other comments appreciated. Here is the url for the thread and
> company respectively.
>
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2001/debian-user-200109/msg00104.html
> http://www.netraverse.com/products/win4lin30/
>
> Eric
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:29:55 -0700
> From: "John (EBo) David" <ebo@eagle.west.asu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Win4Lin Experience?
> To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
>
>
> If I am following the discussion correctly, there is also a product
> called VMWare. I am able to run most windows software in a Windows,
> window without dual booting. I have had some problems with it, but they
> are all related to running it on a dual processor system and the 2.4
> kernal. I just got notice though that they got the 2.4.* problems
> solved...
>
> EBo --
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
> End of PLUG-discuss Digest
>